Olivier Sanchez | Ep #28 | Addressing Hustle Culture to Improve Men’s Health

therapist iridologist a michelin trained chef and is certified in mental health awareness such as eating disorders um and olivia’s speciality is in focusing his attention in making quality nutrition at the forefront for his clients and patients through their healing journey through his practice new trinity in london in the uk so we’re so excited to have you today olivia thank you for being on top of the podcast and welcome thank you very much for having me i’m very very happy to be here thank you so just kind of to to start off our conversation olivier um we we want to talk about the hustle culture with you so what is the hustle culture and i think we’re all kind of guilty about it uh of it sorry uh where we just keep on going without checking in and see if we are really feeling good um men especially because we are in november and we’re kind of we are touching based on uh mental health issues or physical health issues that are mostly targeting men and uh the hustle culture is quite rewarded uh in the masculine or the male um uh how do you say patriarchal society there you go and it’s a lot of um you know just get on with it do it just don’t think about it too much work harder um and this hustle lifestyle is very much priest right um and that exact mentality can drive you to unhealthy behaviors and that’s what we’re going to be speaking about today with you um and based on the studies um male working over 40 hours per week uh we’re more likely to report that eating healthfully takes too much time so what does that mean is that if they are if it takes too much time they are going to prioritize this and there are other findings also that you know kind of supports the fact that long working hours have been associated with paying little attention to nutritional balance irregular meals late dinners and then could also have an effect on obesity so in your point of view uh olivier what are this type of behaviors kind of can do to your body absolutely what you say is absolutely correct and um what i want to do today is to actually paint the whole picture so we can understand exactly what is happening in the body and why is happening in the first place while we are led to believe that working all hours of the day is actually something to reward so that’s why for me i i really want to to use those uh kind of um statistic that has been available to us and some of them like for example in america which are given by the cdc and which exposed that only six percent of adults are reporting to actually engage in all five key health related behavior for chronic disease prevention and we know that those are to never smoke to getting regular exercising consuming alcohol all moderate amounts maintaining a normal body weight and obtaining daily sufficient sleep but for me it’s actually very frustrating because nutrition is never featured or proposed as a pillar to optimum health so there there is already a misconception and something is partly missing and if um nutrition is missing then we know that the effect of any of those five elements will be greatly multiplied and nutrition is such a problem because eating healthily should start at birth and we know that in the uk this is a real problem according to the british genetic association only eight percent of children ever consume their five a day we already know that this concept was developed to minimize the risk of deficiency so not reaching those five a day will already have repetition on the body and the mind at any time in the life of the individual well but more than that less than one third of adult consume their five a day so it is clear is a widespread problem and should more should be done to improve the diet of millions of people but that also kind of indicates that a multitude of people are chronically malnourished so now if we really yes so now if we really look at men in particular and the risks and um as a culture like glorifying entrepreneurship and working our own time of the day and partying hard like we are invincible like just a few years ago entrepreneurship was so big everybody was an entrepreneur um but the problem is creating a business is hard and it usually involves taking real financial risk that puts strength on health and the physical mental and emotional well-being because we are living in the fast lane 24 hours a day and the body can assist in the level of demons especially if nutrition is missing um so i think that it’s an interesting point that you when you started explaining you know what happens to your body because you refer directly to what happens in their childhood but you re you mentioned five days what are five days you know the five days is is it you know your greens is it uh your your vegetables your your fruits what is it exactly so it’s supposed to be five portions of vegetables and fruits in a day and that to cover the proven deficiency you need five a day that’s what the concept was developed so that we prevent kind of deficiency however i really want to stress that one apple is one a day two apple is one a day so the difference of uh on the variety is actually important you need to have a balanced diet that includes one vegetables and one portion of fruits that is different from one another so you need to concentrate on as many different colors as possible to maximize your intake of nutrients right so to make it so kind of to make it simple is you have five different portions of different you know either vegetable or fruits and the portion is do you have like a recommended portion with regards to that so actually you know for me in practice i always say this this is a portion so it’s also so this for the ones who are listening this is like uh a handful you would say more or less yes absolutely yeah but however when we look at the fiber day it’s always good to maximize the vegetables rather than the fruits so always cook keep your kind of fruit intake to minimum so one portion to two portion and then the rest will be vegetables that especially the greens those you know brassica the care the broccoli you know everything that is really deep deep green so that you can really benefit from all the nutrients that they they have right and and like you were saying so it starts from childhood right so what happens to the body if you don’t have this practice from you know a very young age what is the impact so again now we know that lifelong habits are not developed during childhood so now if we add all those bad behavior that we’ve been speaking earlier to the equation that we have a recipe for disaster and considering the normality around our constantly connected world where we are not expected to work at every time of the day reply to emails uh during the night now we know that the brain is constantly stimulated and the body is never really able to rest so if the body is not able to rest it cannot heal and repair the body is under constant remodeling creating new cells to replace old cells and tire cells so the lymphatic system for example the brain clearance system is only activated during deep sleep so any time spent a week when we should be sleeping can lead to the accumulation of metabolic waste toxins and other kind of problematic substances so now if we look at chronic lack of sleep and poor nutrition now you can understand the huge impact on our health by driving inflammatory processes which potentially cannot be um extinguished because of the absence of fresh food and vegetables in a diet those foods are known to provide a multitude of molecules displaying antioxidant activity and this is really key because they support the body at every single level if those nutrients are missing then nobody is left alone to fight on every front the body each cell must be able to breathe to detoxify and repair by counteracting the damaging effect of free radical and this require a huge amount of energy and that energy the body must supply it but however under the influence of all those inflammatory responses the energy pathways are disturbed and that creates even more free radical the body simply cannot produce enough antioxidant enzymes to prevent damage so pregnant is inevitable and this can really open the door to metabolic disorders and metabolic and hormonal imbalances so now if we really understand that the diet is potentially missing key components to health and these also include fiber now you eat on a go you eat between two emails or you eat between two meetings and usually you shove down that sandwich and drink that soda so that you can all go about your day and then we know that it’s not a diet that supports health but that additionally irritates the lining of the gut and that creates even more inflammation now we promote this function in our great brain carbohydrate as well and that even further fueled inflammatory responses because we know that bad bacteria produce inflammatory metabolites and this also inflamed the gut lining even further so now the gut wall as a result become less permeable and becomes more sensitive to the environment and this is how foods hypersensitivities are developed and now we may react to a wide variety of food and usually this is categorized by bloating intestinal discomfort and sometimes in several cases to pain but that’s not only happening in a gut the inflammation can reach the brain and any part of the body it’s usually the weakest tissue organ or system that will be targeted first and now if you really kind of start experiencing brain fog you can’t really think straight you’re tired all day long and took up now you drink more more coffee and then you eat more more sugar just to sustain your energy level yeah because the thing is that in the hustle culture um you would kind of i i’m seeing this it looks like i’m kind of not part of it but it’s true that i’m a bit guilty of it but you have it’s it’s ironic because you if you want to continue that you know fast pace or even be sustainable you know in the long term you have to be able to kind of undo this you know behavior because if you’re always kind of uh on the go and not the the relationship between you know the hustle cushion and just like you know uh always being hyperactive um and then that’s impacting the way you eat or the choice of food and the way you kind of take it creates this stagnation like in your body and you it’s not processing it well um you’re like you’re not letting your your body to do what it’s functioning so you won’t be able to continue and you know hustle like on the long term so it’s it’s interesting how you know it’s um you you you kind of have to undo those unhealthy behaviors to continue to hustle if this is what you want to be doing yeah absolutely and you really pinpoint here the problem and the problem is the stress response because the fight of flight mods is chronically activated which means that the body is constantly in a survival mode he knows that danger is imminent and he must prepare to either run or fight back that’s the aim of the stress risk on the fight-or-flight mode so the problem is now there is no danger to run from and the energy that was diverted to the muscle tissue so that you can really run as fast as possible and to the mind so that you can really think uh and focus very clearly on finding the quickest route out of danger but like again there is no danger there is nothing happening it’s all in our mind and what we’re impacting on the body so now if we imagine the excessive level of blood glucose that is circulating uh in a system the blood system now we know that sugar is very toxic to the blood vessels so the body is not fighting on kind of keeping blood glucose high but at the same time because it’s toxic then the pancreas is releasing that much insulin to bring down level to a healthy level however due to the dominant effect of the stress hormone then the pancreas must really produce a tsunami of insulin and this eventually leads to a negative output when there is not enough glucose in the blood and this is really damaging for the brain and the brain is pulling the alarm it’s saying no no no i need my sugar so now more stress are mana released and now the blood glucose level is elevated again so now you have that vicious circle where you go high you go low you go high you go there and you cannot sustain your energy level during the day but then one could argue that i’m just playing you know devil’s advocate here but you know um if you want to be successful if you want to especially the entrepreneurs or the the the people who are avid hustle culture type of people um you need that like this is they might say well you won’t be successful if you don’t you know if you don’t work hard and you know push yourself in and push yourself and it will take a toll and that’s you know kind of the cost for it right and so that i think that goes into mindfulness and and being okay with what’s what’s given to you and making the best of what and you know slowly but um getting there but there’s this pushing through and and going potentially beyond or faster than what’s given to you uh at that point of time but you you touch upon um stress and burnout and and because you’re literally in a ver vicious circle and you i feel that you know the so the more the more stressed you are the the the more you’re gonna have this unbe this um unhealthy behaviors and so i feel it’s like a exponential route to basically madness and uh all these different toxicity and uh mental health issues um and where breakdown burnout where you just can’t take it anymore have you had patients uh with high anxiety and and how did you potentially help them kind of unwind and and and deal with those problems sorry sorry olivia just to tag on to what kuni was saying because you were explaining earlier about the gut and the brain like a linkage right and you were saying that the because of the lining of the gut kind of depleting because of all this bad behaviors um like yeah the impact on the body and you said it attacks the the weaker organ of the body so did you me which which which organ was the weaker organ in that dynamic that that would depend on your genetic makeup so usually we need some kind of disposition from our parents and their parents before them so literally when we have our kind of recipe to make us to now in that recipe some kind of ingredients um are missing or they are kind of bad for us so now what happened is at the genetical level the energetical level there is already some kind of imbalances and usually um that will depends on family history so for example there are some family where cardiovascular disease is grown in a family some of them will be and some other will be diabetes or crohn’s disease all of these kind of things so whichever it is we know is trans uh sorry transgenerational which means that they pass them from the mother to their children so now what happened is that they become more and more um to develop those uh disorders as they grow because of that kind of accumulation um and those kind of messages that are part of our dna that kind of leads to some predisposition later in life right so it’s kind of uh the summary of this is like it’s all about how you you could have a predisposition you could have family like you know who has diabetes etc but it’s all about how you run your you know your day-to-day your lifestyle et cetera and then if you’re actually helping this to develop into a worse uh scenario and and that’s where you know like anxiety or the stress the amount of stress that you put in your life that the quality of your food you were saying like having those five a days um but i’m sure they’re different also like uh how to say models uh out of the five days in nutrition but this is kind of a quick disclaimer as we as we continue our conversation but uh we were i was asking you about you know having if you had had you know some some patients with high anxiety and and caused by high-level stress at work um and and how did you help them with with that so for me it’s really good to understand what is driving them first and i also want to to kind of uh say to them for example you drink let’s say five six eight cup of coffee a day and that kind of keeps you going however one new brain fog when you’re over hyperactive do you actually work better are you more productive do you have better performance or do you have better performance when you are more centered more quiet inside and more calm and focused so that’s why for me i was like if you eat properly if you sit properly if you sleep properly and you you actually kind of manage your stress response are you more productive by working better not harder so that’s why for me i always kind of say if you are trying to maintain your energy level you are more busy trying to maintain your energy than being focused and being perfect so that’s where your question is like what are you driven by is it the productivity that is important or is it the fact that you seem busy all the time because that’s like two different things yes because for me i want to understand what are the underlying drivers so is it um traumatic event that happened in a childhood is it that you want to prove yourself to other is it that you want to work out of so people notice you or is it because you will start to love yourself better if you work harder and that people now see you exist because the thing is what are the emotional drivers linked to your behavior because we know that our thoughts are linked to emotions and those emotions are associated with our behavior so everything that is in our subconscious driving our mental and focus then we know that we can address our behavior by just simply trying to understand the driving thoughts yeah i was gonna say like that that’s a lot of work that that’s a lot of effort on in every individual’s part and like what you’re saying is basically like kind of you know in a way life coaching slash therapy slash uh counseling self-awareness so it’s like a bunch of things rolled on and when you’re in a hustle culture mindset there’s no time for people don’t think and say like oh i need to be centered in my experience right now they’re thinking like how am i going to get that number meet that target and so this like when you say this i really feel like you’ve identified the gap like the huge gap is right there it’s the coaching aspect of where people are not self-aware enough and they’re not uh taking the time to be present with themselves and understand all their i guess the linkages and they are their own baggage absolutely and for me it’s really key i think uh for the last five years my practice was really focusing on mindfulness because by being present and being honest with ourself we can better understand our thoughts we can analyze pattern and understand where they come from and if you actually um kind of add journaling for example to your mindfulness practice then you can really do a work on yourself and write down those thoughts and how they are affecting you during your day what it is that is driving you and if you really work on yourself and you do it actually every day because if you do not practice it regularly then you will not have the same effects you really need to uh work on yourself on the way that you analyze the thoughts and and i think that that exercise on its own for men is even more important i think in general it’s important for everyone but for men in general why one of the reason i think that it’s more prevalent the hustle culture or the you know work hard play hard type of thing or uh you know don’t don’t think too much and and repress all these thoughts and emotions it’s because society or as you said you know we we’ve been speaking to to our previous uh um specialists and and experts where they’re saying that you know men are thought not to you know not to cry not to you know show emotions etc and so that would explain why they’re going to hustle culture if this you know step you know stop for a minute and and try to understand why they’re doing all this um and so it will explain why they drive themselves into burnout or over stress and kind of uh put them second in terms of nutrition and in terms of taking care of themselves because usually when you talk to men it’s like oh do you take care of yourself and you know uh self-care it’s like oh well self-care is for women or self-care is you know there’s oh they say they work out they work out i’m good and that’s all repressed kind of all trained or brainwashed uh mentalities since they’ve been you know kids where you know they have to do what the society or their mothers and uh fathers have told them to to do and this is what they’re expected to do and now we’re trying to tell them and learn this it’s a bit it’s a tough one it’s a tough one but the problem is for me when you really look at the effect of the knot for example um that’s when your arduino glands can’t take anymore they have exhausted all their resources now if you understand that if you really go to like for me chronic fatigue this is like adrenal fatigue it’s okay it’s you still can manage you know the adrenal can still supply those stress hormones that really allow you to to leave your day because we know that we need to stress someone to wake up in the morning to be focused you know to to maximize performance however there is a tipping point and that is the beginning of breakdown so now if we look at adrenal fatigue the way that the adrenal glands cannot supply enough of the stress hormone to keep us level or because it’s just simply tired of overworking at every time of the day and night because obviously we’re not sleeping enough now that can lead to adrenal exhaustion and adrenal exhaustion you might have to be hospitalized and that can be a really difficult phase to recover from and usually it takes a minimum of six to maybe two years to actually start to feel normal what is this um adrenal exhaustion when your adrenals cannot supply any more of the stress hormone or not enough of the stress hormone right we need those stress hormones because they have a widespread effect on the body they they literally raise blood sugar so for example after sleeping all night they bring enough sugar in the blood so that you have the energy to go down and having your breakfast and then go to work and then start digesting digesting your food so you have that system energy level until you actually have food however when you don’t have this then you can’t wake up in the morning you will struggle to actually wake up and that’s just adrenal fatigue but adrenal exhaustion you are actually probably bedridden you can’t get out of bed you will have no energy to move and you will probably be in pain moving your muscle will be painful and so when you really look at for example being in bed for three weeks to one month or even six months because you can’t move then where is the productivity where is the performance what can you achieve when you’re in that state and the problem is because it takes so long to recover to replenish the body to replenish the adrenal glands then you know that it’s better to look for prevention than to try to re-establish balance once been past that breaking point yeah and so i guess how how can how can um i guess people who are participating and uh embracing the hustle culture how can they address this this concept and also um do something about it today to to build that that resilience in their body and that and that immunity and that strength so for me first of all the key point is to re-establish healthy sleeping patterns with that sleep nothing will work because the stress response will be chronically activated because of the lack of sleep and the hyper stimulation on the brain i’m i’m laughing because uh i think rooney knows how much i struggle with sleeping especially since we’ve been doing this um so it’s it’s it’s a very good reminder thank you well actually you know it’s a very visual circle you work hard you are stressed you are more likely to become anxious because you’re not feeling that you’re productive enough your performance is lacking and therefore by being anxious now are you in my mind now this affects your sleep so you don’t sleep you become anxious you sleep less and now what happened is that your brain is hooked on fear and you sleep with one eye open so when that happens you can go to bed and try to sleep you will never sleep because you are hooked on fear and sleep with one eye open so you really need to address how you stress response how you activate that stress response and how it’s affecting your body if you are not breaking those cycles you will not reestablish good sleep yeah i see i see that like um i use sleep as like the easy way out like it’s a i’m thinking it’s my balance to continue that hustle culture so if i don’t get that sleep it’s like you don’t have to do anything you just have to lay there and close your eyes and let the the body do what it’s supposed to do and so if you think of it as like a you know part of that process of making sure that you can be sustainable then it’s an easy way but getting over that anxiety is another aspect but the problem is i really want to stress one thing here is that you should never and this will speak to everyone you should never bring work to the bedroom because this is the worst for sleep if you check your emails or your phone before sleep then you’re already setting the mood for the night thinking oh my god i forgot about this this now i need to reply oh i forgot about this meeting oh my god now you are literally focusing on the bad things that you should not so now you are affecting your sleep at the deepest level because now you are assimilating your bed with work so every time you will go to bed your brain will be hooked on work all the things that you have forgotten did you and then it would become such an automatism that every time you will go to bed you will check your phone and now you are activating that stress response every time you go to bed so work should never enter the bedroom okay and for me i also recommend one thing is that you go to bed and if after 15 minutes you are not sleeping you must get out of bed and go to another room and then you only go back to bed once you’re tired so you can have a cup of coffee you can read the book you can do anything no screens nothing stimulating you cannot stimulate your mind if you stimulate your mind you will be kept awake you need to do something that is soothing read the book um drink a moment something that you like something warm and comforting and then you go back to bed and that will kind of associate bed with sleep your brain will understand that bed is for sleep you cannot establish healthy sleep patterns if you do not establish bed with sleep yeah it requires discipline right oh absolutely absolutely this one yes so sleep is one yeah then whatever is a nutrient dense balanced diet which includes as many fruits and vegetables of as many different color as possible and also to rebalance the ratio of omega-3 to omega-6 and we should aim for a ratio of one to one or one to four at the very maximum and this is achieved by avoiding uh conventional meat all those um kind of um long-life myths are called these things you know like a ham and like exactly yeah exactly all those things that you find in sandwiches for example so now we want to look at this kind of conditional meat and cured meat but also the farm fish because we want that omega freeze because of their anti-inflammatory effect on the body and that is achieved by looking for small wild fatty fish like the socai salmon the earrings the sardines and the mackerel and even though um river trout are so acceptable you know everything that is rich in omega-3 we know that conventional meat and farm fish have a different ratio of omega-3 omega-6 they contain more omega-6 because of their diet they’re no longer eating their diet they have forced a diet that is not theirs and that leads to dysfunction in their own body and so their kind of fat is not changed to more poor inflammatory omega-6 based fat so for the ones who are you know not eating fish vegetarians or vegans where would be the best way to get those omegas so for me now when we speak about restricted diet whichever they can be the vegetarian the vegan it is now key to understand that if you don’t cook from scratch your diet is as bad as those people eating the meat the conventional meat why is that it’s because your food is cooked in a factory and that food is full of additives of preservatives it has no fiber and probably the nutrients that are there are synthetic they’re made made and most obviously the body cannot recognize them because they don’t occur naturally in nature so when we understand that if we choose to have a particular diet then we need to optimize our nutrition by cooking from scratch by eating fresh food if we rely on ready-made meals evan is vegan and if you really read the labels of vegan food for example the list of ingredients is like that for the same kind of alternative that will be the normal one with a few ingredients and for me i i do look at sausages for example vegan sausages the label is a mile long and when you look at the ingredients you want to run a mile because for me what i don’t understand is why you want to have vegan meat that bleeds that the normal need so i mean let’s let’s put a point here it’s like agreed let’s not talk about processed food because we agree that regardless vegan or not but vegetarian processed food is not right but now say how do i get because i want to know because i’m vegetarian how do i get my omegas when i don’t eat fish so we know that for example fish get their food from their fatty tissue from and they are kind of a um color from it’s by the food that they eat one of the richest omega-3 sauce is actually algiz they are packed full of omega-3 and that’s where fish get the omega-3 and that for example the crew get their access sentient from the phytoplankton those um kind of nutrients that are floating in seas so if we understand that then we can really maximize our right kind of omega-3 um i know that a lot of people especially the vegan and vegetarian kind of focus on for example linseed or flax seed oil but we know that yes they are extremely rich in omega-3 however the breakdown to get those very potent omega-3 then the body needs to have those uh kind of enzyme that work at breaking down those molecules however we know that enzymes are very sensible to the ph of the body uh the temperature and also the cofactors so if you are missing cofactors like for example magnesium cellulosing and b vitamins if those are not in your diet or also because you are chronically malnourished because of your diet because of eating intraoperative food or being stressed and chronically stressed then you know you are missing those cofactors so you might not be able to break down those omega-3 to the potent omega-3 that are essential for the body yes because i was thinking like that because the initial question what are three things that um people can apply immediately to for people who are in that hassle culture which is you know we to summarize the first two which is sleep then we said uh having uh food that is rich in nutrients etc and so we just kind of touch upon the the different uh dietary restrictions if you do have one what would be the last one so for me like we talked earlier it’s about addressing the drivers what is driving you to always want to achieve more what is it that you’re trying to prove and why right like again is it because of past experiences that you have developed coping mechanisms or kind of automatisms that kind of help you boost your own emotional balance so if you are linking those automatism to emotions then now you can understand what drives them because you want to reach the emotions those key behavior that are associated with those emotions so is it because you want to feel good does it because you want to uh feel rewarded or prove that you exist that you are worth it that you are worth of being loved that for me if this is identified as a driver then you really need to work on those drivers and that could be like we talked again um therapy mindfulness journaling it could be meditative state like meditative uh exercising like qigong or yoga but also the breathing exercises so you are present and you are opening your mind to better understand yourself to be honest with yourself and identify where your patterns come from yeah well that’s really well said i think that that really sums up what we are trying to uh encourage people to to look into and move towards so that they don’t they can get a piece of the hustle culture but at the same time uh take care of this of themselves and create a better world where we are actually hustling but mindfully yeah it’s all about balance right and finding that you can still push through but you need to know when your body is like uh telling you like this this is my red flag and it’s about finding that right balance absolutely um so olivia yes as we normally conclude our conversations uh i know we have a lot to talk we can we can talk about lots of things but um we want to do our rapid fire questions with you uh so our first question is actually uh what is the worst health advice you’ve ever received so i think it’s gonna be a very quick one um that would be that diet and lifestyle are not linked to chronic diseases and that your doctor knows best so and i see it in practice all the time oh but my doctor said so your doctor said and what what does that mean does it mean it knows you does it means that in a five minutes that you spoke to him and kind of explain your symptoms that he knows what’s wrong with you probably not because the problem is it doesn’t know the causes to your problem or probably don’t have the time because the consultation is so limited you i think a doctor now is seven minutes with a patient in seven minutes it’s impossible to discuss your problem and i think now if you have two problems you need to make two appointments but knowing how difficult it is to get one appointment um good luck to actually see your doctor and get you know everything sorted yeah that’s a pretty terrible one actually including the second one and so the second one is if there was one habit you think we should all adopt what would it be so for me it would be to eat 10 a day five a day was fine you know to minimize deficiencies in nutrients but for me aim for technically and and mindful practices so for me they’re all linked so when it’s time to eat you need to be mindful about that food you need to reconnect with food you need to understand what it does on your body you need to understand how it affects every single cell and tissue in your body but you need to look at food as information that is given to your body to operate so if you look at food as being a message sent to your body then you really understand how your kind of uh understanding of food can play on your body yeah yeah and i think that if you put your your 10 days and it’s it’s more like the 10 of days is more like a you know a way a framework right and so then that forces you to be mindful about how you cook what you’re going to put in your food what you’re going to put in your mouth how are you going to eat it etc and so i think um yeah that’s a good um habit to go in the third one yeah and the final one is if you had to put a song or a soundtrack to your life right now what would it be um actually um i think i’m thinking uh about the greatest loverboy by uh whitney houston because once you understand the power of your thoughts then you understand you better love yourself first and enjoy all the little things in life because this is true happiness and if you love yourself you will be more inclined to look after yourself after your body and after your mind wow that is very very profound and sweet yeah and especially for men i think that it’s a great message to give because they sometimes forget that they need to love themselves and um i mean in the sense that of being in a qualitative way um and so i think it’s a nice way to to end our episode with you on that uh beautiful note thank you olivia for for joining us today and sharing your insights and hopefully through this men would feel a bit more inclined to open up and also look at their health in a different way that’s positive for them