Ashwinni Manasseh | Ep #10 | Demistifying Postpartum Part 2

advice today’s episode is part two of our quest to demystify the postpartum experience with counseling psychologist ashwini manasseh we cover relationship changes new mothers experience both with themselves and their partners for now stay tuned and enjoy this episode hey guys i’m tasha hey listeners this is ghooni and you’re tuned in to doctor of the podcast where we chat and explore all things on integrative medicine so i grew up with a mother that after that first month or second month she’s like yeah i’m done i’m i think i’ve done my duty uh i want to go back to work because i miss it and i want it and and i think that that will be reflected in potentially the way i approach motherhood uh i don’t know how how was your experience uh with your mom seeing your mom and and how you approach it with motherhood i mean for me yeah quite the opposite like my mom was working but she worked night shifts as a nurse so during the day she was with us all the time and then i have no idea how she did this but she would like then finish up with us and then be a nurse overnight and then yeah it’s pretty full-on so she worked but somehow managed to still spend a lot of time with us um growing up and yeah so for me i really enjoy spending time with my child and i do do more of that than i work at the moment but perhaps also my interest in psychology plays a role here because i really enjoy child development and that kind of comes financially to me but it doesn’t for all moms so i see lots of moms who really don’t enjoy it and yeah especially those early years where it’s all about feeding happy changes cleaning it’s very mundane you’re not getting that much in return like especially until they start talking and so for some women they really don’t enjoy it and especially the women who are quite high achieving um very goal-oriented i mean they may have had big careers and then they are now at home and they feel like all they are doing even though it’s a whole lot is changing wiping pewee bombs and like for them they just feel like what is this it’s like who am i now um they feel the sense of failure like they’re not achieving anything um and yeah it can be really really tough they just feel it’s so mundane and they’re missing out on bigger better things in the world and for those moms i say like especially for the time that you are at home during maternity leave reframing your achievements so maybe before your achievement might have been like a big project or i don’t know a presentation or something like that but perhaps maybe your goals right now might be to take a shower and to you know like to cook a meal for yourself and your family um once you go for a walk so like you’re really kind of being realistic and um you know reframing in a way your your goals um so you feel a sense of achievement still but you’re being more realistic um about what you can manage so yeah that’s the advice i have but also you know you need to do what is important for you and that works for your situation and if you don’t enjoy it if you’re miserable then you’re not going to really be the best mom for your child so maybe you do need to have like time for your career if that is what recharges you if that makes you feel good about yourself if that gives you your sense of identity then that’s going to give you that boost to be a better mother to be more present with your child but when you’re with your child i still suggest like be present and be fully there with them try not to multitask with work and caregiving focus on quality time with your child because you do still want to maintain that connection you want to make your child feel secure and you want to keep that bond so even though you may not spend that much time with them focus on quality time with them so it could be bath time book time play time pick you know one or two parts of their day and make that special because babies are only like this for a very short time and we we want to also be in the moment and be present during those early years sometimes our mind is so future orientated that we just forget to just be in the present moment as it is and right yeah because some women also expect that when their baby is born they’re going to feel this instant connection and like love and like they take on this like oh now i’m thinking that they’re my baby and i’m like now a mom and they’re just going to feel this like yeah it’s just going to be an instant thing but actually for a lot of er even myself like i had no connection like as soon as this baby is just there and it’s for many moms the first time they see their baby they don’t feel much because they don’t know their baby even though their baby’s been inside them for nine months or less sometimes they don’t really have any bond with them sometimes and so that can kind of come with with caring for your baby nurturing your baby getting to know your baby um but i just wanted to share like normalize that actually a lot of the time you don’t have that that instant connection takes time so it was telling tasha about this um in terms of career i feel that as right now it’s my time to be able to feel like at a point where i am comfortable enough so that if i don’t prioritize myself in the future it’s okay uh because i think it’s easy to become resentful timelines or even being resentful of your of your child or of your family or whatever because you’re not able to prioritize yourself to reach your personal goals or your personal aspiration which which a man when you think about it doesn’t really need to think about that yeah no you’re right i think you need to be ready i think you have to because it is a huge commitment right and if you really want to be like the present parent and enjoy this part of your life i think you do have to be ready and of course you’re not going to have everything in line perfectly um but i think it’s important to really be realistic about what motherhood is going to look like and ask yourself like are you willing to deal with the compromises that comes up from that are you in a good position and i think that’s probably the most honest thing you can do for yourself and your baby but i think care is like something i just wanted to share that with mums like you don’t have to lose that you know it’s not doesn’t mean that it has to be like 100 baby and then you’re you’re you’re gone um so keeping in mind though that you do still need to really look after yourself even though you’ve had a baby like you still need to find those things that are important to you that you yeah you may not have as much time for it but it’s still important that you give yourself time um for yourself i say use this kind of analogy like to think of yourself like you know your battery and that your battery is going to deplete very quickly throughout the day when you have a child and so you need to do things that kind of charge recharge that battery whether it’s like you know it doesn’t have to be as far but like that kind of thing or it could just be like sleeping in it could be you know an exercise class it could be doing a bit of your you know focusing on your career um but i guess i guess that change also comes with or that shift because it’s something that is very traditional to to a certain extent to say like you’re you’re you’re now a mother and this is your focus this is your role this is what you have to do right and and adjusting to the modern mom um i guess it’s that change comes also by educating or having husbands and family members and a circle that empowers you and say it’s okay if you you’re not 24 7 with your child and um going for your own aspiration you’re right you’re right it’s interesting because actually the women i work with it’s not really the husbands and families who are telling them that it’s themselves like they feel like they need to like this is their role and like nobody else can do this job except them it’s just like mom and baby unit and like any time they spend on themselves is considered selfish um so i actually see mom struggling it with from them like just i don’t know whether it’s come from family or friends but i see it coming from themselves right and i again i just say to them like you do need to really put yourself first and so because if you kind of can take care of yourself first you’re going to be much better parent like i know if i have just like an hour yoga class away from my son i come back refreshed i come back you know calm able to really respond to him so it’s really about quality over quantity um especially for women who are going back to work i always say like do you try to focus on the quality time when you have with your children um because mom guilt is a real thing yeah on that note right for mom guilt as you guys were explaining that earlier it it dawned on me that i think the struggle is people maybe don’t differentiate that when you become a new mom your biological desire is that you want to take care of your child and like not recognizing that i could imagine it being super overwhelming because you feel this drive or desire to take care of your child but then you have this like conflicting value of like i need to work on my career and then on myself so it’s like to i guess recognize the fact that you know when you have a baby there’s already like form of an attachment to your child right so you’d already want to be there and that small i guess uh factor is not something that people acknowledge right i think that there’s so many things that that moms want to do and that and you’re right like this conflict between like this responsibility as a mom and then like your own personal needs and where does that fit in again like for every one that’s so different i think it’s really important to figure out what are your family values what’s important to you and your partner talk about it um what about the moms who are who are don’t feel that attachment because as you were saying tasha like you were you feel that that’s a biological attachment but what i think there are some women out there that don’t have that attachment and are they bad moms because of that i think no but they’re very much judged i think i guess what you’re tapping on here is like attachment theory and actually the mate documentary really kind of shed light on that so i see this a lot with moms who you know they may have had a rocky relationship with their mom and after they’ve had their baby they really start to reflect on like what they want to do differently and what kind of mum they want to be but not everyone does this right so i think it’s important before you have a child or even once you’ve had a child to really maybe even see someone and figure out what your attachment was like with your parents because it’s something we don’t realize affects our relationships a lot with our partners and our children so it’s definitely something to look at but i wouldn’t say that’s the only explanation um like different cultural values and yeah but there are differences not every woman feels that same way um and doing a little bit of exploration around that is is helpful um so do you think that’s such a thing of overdoing things yeah no definitely i mean that sometimes like we can be overly cautious not to cause any trauma or any attachment issues to our children and like we may then overextend it to kind of cotton balling them and you know that that in itself is an attachment issue um right much space and yeah over protect them and and don’t really allow them to navigate the world on their own and so i mean the thing is i guess first just figuring out what your own you know attachment is like with your parents just being aware of that is helpful and it will just make you a more conscious parent but balance right and it comes back to that like good enough parent like not aiming for perfect right that you’re going to make mistakes but it’s not about the mistakes it’s about the repair and that’s key and that’s such a good point and being well informed like really like i think as a parent it’s a big responsibility yeah i think i think you touched on a really good point there in terms of being well informed because for me that’s like being a conscious and aware person and having having these built-in practices within yourself about your own life right so if you have that then you will be kind of applying that for your child as well and if you don’t have that then it’s like you’re operating life in a way that is coming from the base of like your your traumas right but if you have that awareness okay i have this like you know these particular issues in this area so when i approach my child i know i’m not going to carry all of that baggage with that onto my child right yeah it’s called re-parenting yourself um interesting i like the word yeah it’s really about exactly what you said it’s so important like think about how you were raised what worked what you liked what you enjoyed your bad memories your good memories um take some time to explore that it you probably will need to exploit with a therapist because it is quite complex um but not only for your relationship with your child but also for your relationship with your partner or your colleagues or any relationships really yeah yeah it is significant i mean even now like whilst i’m parenting my child i see the way my parents communicate with him and then realize wow i’m doing things quite differently like i can see how they might have communicated with me and i’m trying really not to do certain things like i know in asian cultures there’s a lot of pressure to like feed your children and make sure they’re eating enough and spoon feed them like just like obsession food yeah for me i’ve just thought like how much i hated that and like i want him to like have his own relationship with food and enjoy food and and connect with it not just like this in front of the tv so i’ve been quite conscious and like thinking about how i want to do it differently but most people don’t it’s only because i read about this stuff all the time and i really encourage parents to think about yeah how they want to do things differently all the same yeah i think it just it goes back to like the quality of the relationship you want to to create with your child and with your family right and if i want a certain type of relationship then i want to cultivate it a certain way and what do i need to do to cultivate it to become that relationship i guess that’s how i look at it even if you identify like the type of you know parenting you had and um you know you think about what you want to do differently sometimes parents just still don’t know what how to do it differently right it’s so ingrained um it just comes so automatically so you do need to then perhaps you know look into courses on parenting communication skills understanding you know developmental milestones in children yeah it’s i mean i’m learning every day like how not to get into a power struggle with my toddler like it’s it’s so interesting you know like and i feel like you can actually improve your life as well so much like if i if i didn’t really read these things like i would be constantly getting into power struggles with him and pulling my hair out but i’ve learned how to not do that and to give him choices and right in doing that it might seem like a lot of work because i’m reading all the time but actually it’s made my life a lot easier so there are benefits in kind of spending that bit of time to read up and understand how you can yeah communicate more effectively interesting like the quality of the relationship you want to to create with your child and with your family right and if i want a certain type of relationship then i want to cultivate it a certain way and what do i need to do to cultivate it to become that relationship i guess that’s how i look at it even if you identify like the type of you know parenting you had and um you know you think about what you want to do differently sometimes parents just still don’t know what how to do it differently right it’s so ingrained um it just comes so automatically so you do need to then perhaps you know look into courses on parenting communication skills understanding you know developmental milestones in children yeah it’s i mean i’m learning every day like how not to get into a power struggle with my toddler like it’s it’s mean it’s so interesting and i feel like you can actually improve your life as well so much like if i if i didn’t really read these things like i would be constantly getting into power struggles with him and pulling my hair out but i’ve learned how to not do that and to give him choices and in doing that it might seem like a lot of work because i’m reading all the time but actually it’s made my life a lot easier so there are benefits in kind of spending that bit of time to read up and understand how you can yeah communicate more effectively interesting yeah so we talk about relationships and also another thing that uh i feel is not conversations that are out there and open but it’s more as you go through your postpartum your relationship with your husband or your partner um how how is that going on in general what are some of the typical issues that comes up yeah that’s a big one um relationships can change quite significantly after having a baby um i mean i’ve experienced it firsthand it it’s this huge shift of like dynamic right like before you have a baby it’s just you and your partner and you have your own routine your own time together to connect and it’s it’s the time i guess alone that is harder to find um constantly all the attention is often on the baby or toddler and it’s so easy to build up resentment towards each other because each of you may come with different expectations and may find that the other person may not be always fulfilling them you’re also sleep deprived not only the few months like you can go on your first justify that i think that’s one thing people like don’t realize it’s not just it’s the consistent consistent like sleep deprivation right exactly you know you’re sleep deprived there’s just more static stress in the house of course it’s not all negative like it does bring them closer they have this new beautiful thing to connect on and to share and laugh over and it just changes right like things you do together changes and adjusting to that but i would say like for couples um find moments to connect like maybe you pick one time of the day to have a ritual that helps you to connect with each other you know you may not have the perfect date night like you used to but instead of immediately putting netflix on but sitting together for like the first 15 minutes and just having a conversation about each other’s days um and it goes a long way showing appreciation i think sometimes it’s so easy when you’re tired and annoyed at each other to focus on what’s not working what they’re not doing but even if it’s really hard and there’s seven things they didn’t do and one thing they did do well acknowledge the one thing they did do well and you may find that that positivity grows and what about intimacy because men are are quite known to have sometimes a higher sexual drive than women but especially the postpartum part i guess that women are going through a change of hormones etc and so maybe their sex drive is not as strong um even that like conversation or that adjustment how how what is your technology i mean that’s definitely something i i hear a lot of of and for women there is a lot more changes hormonally after they give birth you know your body just changes it becomes this kind of nurturing mother body and that can be quite hard to switch when you’re with your partner and yeah hormonally sometimes their sex drives is lower too again you’re sleep-deprived you just don’t have that much time to connect um i was reading an article that spoke about resentment and how like that can really affect sex lives after they give birth just kind of that constant frustration with each other and then their tiredness and then just not really feeling that openness and compassion to be intimate so yeah that’s definitely something i see a lot of and sometimes even just starting like gradually so even like non-sexual intimacy to start with that um you know just hugging holding each other kissing just having a bath together going for a walk together holding hands like really really small steps um is a good start and for some clients um it can work quite well to think of themselves as like changing hats so like for moms particularly they struggle to turn off this like mom mode like sexy mode and so even just thinking it’s like changing hats like i’m going to put my mom’s hat off and put my wife hat on be like a nice way for them to get into that headspace yeah and potentially like changing that hat is is a nice tool yeah and a lot of families especially in asian cultures go sleep as well so if they have one or multiple kids in their bedroom with them and so it can really affect your intimate life when you don’t have that privacy yeah yeah but yeah it’s definitely something that comes up very commonly yeah i feel that this conversation is so interesting and i think we’ve went on much longer than expected but what i wanted to say is as we kind of close off what would be your kind of your three key takeaways for for women stepping into motherhood or curious about it or are in it and struggling not comparing like focusing on um you know your unique situation your unique body your unique baby and family right like doing what works for you like i think being able to just like filter all the stuff you’re hearing and seeing from in-laws from social media from friends um and of course you’re gonna hear it you can’t stop it from coming but being able to set boundaries on it like filtering it and coming back to like what works for you in your situation um the other thing was this this idea of um this good enough mindset so focusing on good enough not aiming for perfect so being really realistic about your expectations of yourself and your baby too and self-care right like being you know compassionate to yourself looking after yourself putting yourself first and yes i know it’s some women don’t have support and don’t have the luxury of time alone but even if you can find like you know micro breaks in your day like your baby goes down for a nap in that first 15 minutes you just lie down and put your feet up put your phone away and just find like micro moments to just recharge um it doesn’t have to be a spa day like you’re not gonna find that but just small regular um top up um you know recharging that battery as much as you can i use this traffic light analogy like you know notice if you’re in the green zone that means you’re kind of good you’re calm you’re ready to go yellow zone is like when you’re starting to get like irritable and tired and the red zone would be when you’re kind of you’re at breaking point right and just kind of check in with where you’re at so you know when you need a break those are really awesome tips i mean i think very practical and like hands-on nothing that requires someone else to kind of uh help you navigate it’s all self-checking self-assessment tools right it has to be simple for moms otherwise it’s just gonna go over yeah well thank you so much for doing this with us and i think we’re gonna really help and and share a lot of insight to mums to be and people curious about the other side of motherhood that is not uh displayed in movies thank you yeah i love i love talking about this and like even if it for one mom just makes them feel like abnormal um kind of reassures them that they’re okay and they’re not the only ones and that’s great awesome if you’d like to book in a consultation with srini manasse you can connect with her via alliance counseling that is a double l i a n c e counseling c o u n s e l ing esrini can do both in-house and virtual sessions if you’re based in singapore and if you’re not she can consult with you virtually for her counseling services the link to alliance counseling is available in our episode show notes and on our instagram page at dot if the podcast with that said if you enjoyed this episode go ahead and select that follow a subscribe button for now stay safe